United States v. Triumph Capital Group, Inc. 1 2

1
05-2630-cr
United States v. Triumph Capital Group, Inc.
1
2
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS 3
4
FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT 5
6
7
8
August Term, 2006 9
10
(Argued: September 20, 2006 Decided: May 25, 2007) 11
12
Docket No. No. 05-2630-cr 13
14
15
16
17
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 18
19
Appellee, 20
21
– v.– 22
23
TRIUMPH CAPITAL GROUP, INC., FREDERICK W. McCARTHY, CHARLES B. 24
SPADONI, LISA A. THIESFIELD 25
26
Defendants, 27
28
BEN F. ANDREWS, 29
Defendant-Appellant. 30
31
32
33 34
35
Before: CALABRESI, POOLER, and B.D. PARKER, Circuit Judges. 36
37 38
39
Appeal from a judgment of conviction of the United States District Court for the District of 40
Connecticut (Burns, J.). Affirmed 41
42 43
44
JEREMIAH DONOVAN, Old Saybrook, Conn. 45

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for Defendant-Appellant. 1
2
WILLIAM J. NARDINI, Assistant United States Attorney (David A. Ring, 3
Assistant United States Attorney, on the brief), for John H. Durham, 4
Acting United States Attorney for the District of Connecticut, New Haven, 5
Conn., for Appellee. 6
78
9
CALABRESI, Circuit Judge: 10
11
Defendant-Appellant Ben F. Andrews (“defendant” or “Andrews”) appeals from a judgment 12
of conviction entered on June 9, 2005, in the United States District Court for the District of 13
Connecticut (Burns, J.). Following a jury trial, Andrews was convicted of nine counts, including 14
bribery, fraud, money-laundering, and false-statement charges, for his role in former Treasurer of the 15
State of Connecticut Paul Silvester’s allegedly unlawful investment of state pension funds. On 16
appeal Andrews raises a variety of challenges to the conviction. All but one of these challenges are 17
governed by settled law, and we consider and reject these challenges in a summary order 18
accompanying this decision. We write here to address Andrews’ allegations that the district court 19
violated Andrews’ Sixth Amendment right to counsel when it placed some restrictions on 20
communication between him and his counsel. 21
In Geders v. United States, 425 U.S. 80 (1976), the Supreme Court held that a court order 22
preventing a testifying defendant from consulting his counsel during an overnight recess violated the 23
Sixth Amendment. Thirteen years later, in Perry v. Leeke, 488 U.S. 272 (1989), the Court held that 24
barring all communications between a defendant and his counsel during a fifteen minute break in the 25
defendant’s testimony was constitutionally permissible. Ever since, courts have struggled to define 26
the constitutional line between Geders and Perry. See Serrano v. Fischer, 412 F.3d 292 (2005). We 27
return to this inquiry today, and hold that, in the particular circumstances of this case, the court 28

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1 Defense counsel told the district court that Andrews had already left. The attorney for the Government
responded that he remembered clearly that Andrews was still in the courtroom at the time.
3
orders did not violate Andrews’ constitutional right to assistance of counsel. Accordingly, we affirm 1
the judgment of conviction. 2
I. BACKGROUND 3
At the end of Andrews’ first day of cross-examination, on October 22, 2003, his defense 4
counsel, Jeremiah Donovan (“Donovan”), informed the district court that he intended to “talk to [the 5
defendant] about his testimony” and that “[he] just want[ed] to make sure that no one views that as 6
any kind of a violation of the rules.” When the Government opined that such discussions should not 7
be allowed, the district court ordered, over the defense’s objection, that defense counsel not talk with 8
the defendant about his testimony during the evening recess. The court adjourned immediately 9
thereafter, at approximately 5:10 pm. The parties have largely stipulated to the events that followed, 10
and, unless otherwise noted, the facts described below are undisputed. 11
The Government quickly realized that the court order might raise constitutional concerns, and 12
within twenty minutes, informed both the court and defense counsel, who was still in the courthouse, 13
that it would be researching the propriety of the restriction and would request a conference call with 14
the Court later that evening to rescind the ban if its research showed that removing the ban was 15
appropriate. The parties dispute whether Andrews was also still in the courthouse at the time his 16
counsel was notified.1 Defense counsel stipulated, however, that he had Andrews’ cell phone 17
number and could have called Andrews then, at 5.30 pm, to notify him that the order might be 18
rescinded, and that counsel did not do so. 19
20

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2 The Government, noting that the Second Circuit had not spoken on the issue, took the position that it had
asked the Court to rescind its order as early as possible to avoid “possible claims of error” even though it
believed that Santos was wrongly decided.
3 The parties stipulated that Andrews was in a prayer meeting—and his cell phone was turned off—from
7:30 to 9:30 that evening.
4
Shortly after, the Government decided that it would be prudent to move to have the order 1
rescinded. United States v. Santos, 201 F.3d 953 (7th Cir. 2000), which held that an order barring 2
a defendant from discussing his testimony with his attorney overnight was unconstitutional, cast 3
doubt on the propriety of the court’s order.2 At the district court’s request, the Government 4
attempted to arrange a conference call between the Government, defense counsel, and the court. The 5
Government first reached Donovan between 6:00 and 7:00 pm, but he was on a train and poor 6
reception precluded holding the conference call at that time. All parties and the court were 7
successfully reached at 8:00 pm, and, after a short conference call, the court rescinded its order, so 8
that defense counsel was no longer barred from talking with his client. According to defense counsel, 9
at the time of the conference call he was in a pizza restaurant. Defense counsel did not talk to his 10
client that evening after the conference. He maintained that it was too late, that he did not have the 11
files he needed, and that he wouldn’t have been able to reach Andrews because Andrews was 12
“seeking spiritual guidance” at that time.3
13
The next morning, in an attempt to rectify the effects of the restriction, the court recessed 14
before the day’s testimony began. This was meant to give Andrews as much time as he needed to 15
discuss the case with his attorney. Defense counsel argued that morning conversations would not 16
be equivalent to being able to talk with Andrews immediately after the examination had concluded 17
the day before. Counsel stated that his recollection of the prior day’s testimony was “hazy” and that 18
he had not taken notes on the assumption that he would be able to talk with Andrews immediately 19

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5
during the evening recess. He did not, however, request an opportunity to obtain and review the 1
prior day’s daily transcript, which the parties acknowledged (at oral argument) was generally 2
available. And after consulting with his client for forty-five minutes, defense counsel agreed that 3
they had had “sufficient time.” Nevertheless, the defense moved for a mistrial, which was denied. 4
Although the overnight ban on discussion of testimony was not renewed, the district court 5
did order that, during daytime breaks in the cross-examination, including the one-hour lunch breaks 6
and shorter mid-afternoon and morning breaks, the defense counsel could not speak to the defendant 7
about his testimony. The court emphasized, however, that they could talk about “other matters 8
related to the trial.” 9
On July 8, 2004, in a late-filed motion for a new trial, the defense renewed its objections to 10
the restrictions on communication. The district court denied the motion as untimely, but also found, 11
in the alternative, that there had been no constitutional violation. The court reasoned that its “order 12
to Defendant not to discuss his testimony during an overnight recess, rescinded after approximately 13
three hours, is more analogous to the brief recess and narrowly tailored prohibition in Perry than to 14
the overnight denial of assistance of counsel in . . . Geders.” And it found that the ban on discussing 15
testimony during the daytime breaks was “explicitly permitted by Perry, especially where Defendant 16
has not been barred from discussing other aspects of his defense case.” 17
The defendant timely appealed. 18

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6
II. DISCUSSION 1
Under the Sixth Amendment, a criminal defendant “is guaranteed not just the right to be 2
represented by counsel but the right to the effective assistance of counsel.” Morgan v. Bennett, 204 3
F.3d 360, 365 (2d Cir. 2000) (citing United States v. Cronic, 466 U.S. 648, 654 (1984); Strickland 4
v. Washington, 466 U.S. 668, 685-86 (1984)). Effective assistance of counsel requires that the 5
defendant be allowed to communicate with his or her attorney. For as the Supreme Court has long 6
held, “the role of counsel is important precisely because ordinarily a defendant is ill-equipped to 7
understand and deal with the trial process without a lawyer’s guidance.” Geders, 425 U.S. at 89 8
(citing Powell v. Alabama, 287 U.S. 45, 68-69 (1932); Argersinger v. Hamlin, 407 U.S. 25, 31- 9
36 (1972); Gideon v. Wainwright, 372 U.S. 335, 343-345 (1963)). 10
Not all restrictions on communication between a defendant and his counsel are 11
constitutionally prohibited, however. In certain contexts there can be an “important need to protect 12
a countervailing interest,” which may justify a restriction on the defendant’s ability to consult with 13
his attorney if the restriction is “carefully tailored” and “limited.” Morgan, 204 F.3d at 367. And, 14
as we elaborate below, even some unjustified restrictions may be so trivial that they do not amount 15
to a constitutional violation. 16
A. 17
Claims that a defendant’s constitutional rights were violated by a court order restricting 18
communication between the defendant and his attorney are governed by two Supreme Court 19
precedents, Geders v. United States, 425 U.S. 80 (1976), and Perry v. Leeke, 488 U.S. 272 (1989). 20
In Geders, the Court held that “an order preventing petitioner from consulting his counsel ‘about 21
anything’ during a 17-hour overnight recess between his direct- and cross-examination impinged 22

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7
upon his right to the assistance of counsel guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment.” 425 U.S. at 91. 1
The Court recognized that district courts have broad discretion to limit witnesses’ communication 2
while they are testifying in order to prevent improper influence and coaching, but concluded that 3
when the witness is also the defendant, the Sixth Amendment significantly curtails this discretion. 4
Id. at 88. 5
The Court found that overnight recesses “are often times of intensive work,” for the 6
defendant and his counsel, and explained that there were a variety of legitimate purposes of such 7
communication including: (1) making “tactical decisions” and reviewing strategies; (2) obtaining 8
information from the defendant made relevant by the day’s testimony; (3) allowing the defense 9
counsel an opportunity to “pursue inquiry along lines not fully explored earlier”; and (4) “[a]t the 10
very least, . . . giv[ing] the defendant a chance to discuss with counsel the significance of the day’s 11
events.” Id. And the Court noted that, rather than barring overnight communication between a 12
testifying defendant and his counsel, the district court could employ other means to guard against 13
excessive influence on the testimony, such as allowing uninterrupted cross-examination to delve into 14
matters like coaching. Id. at 88. Moreover, Geders concluded that 15
[t]o the extent that conflict remains between the defendant’s right to consult with his 16
attorney during a long overnight recess in the trial, and the prosecutor’s desire to 17
cross-examine the defendant without the intervention of counsel, with the risk of 18
improper “coaching,” the conflict must, under the Sixth Amendment, be resolved in 19
favor of the right to the assistance and guidance of counsel. 20
21
Id. at 91. 22
Thirteen years later, in Perry, the Court found that barring attorney-client communications 23
during a fifteen minute break in the defendant’s testimony did not raise the same constitutional 24
concerns as the overnight ban in Geders. The Court admitted that the line between the facts of 25

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Geders and Perry was a “thin one,” but found that it was “a line of constitutional dimension.” Perry, 1
488 U.S at 280. According to Perry, the “distinction rests . . . on the fact that when a defendant 2
becomes a witness, he has no constitutional right to consult with his lawyer while he is testifying,” 3
even if no improper coaching is involved. Id. at 281. Thus, “in a short recess in which it is 4
appropriate to presume that nothing but the testimony will be discussed, the testifying defendant does 5
not have a constitutional right to advice.” Id. at 284. 6
Perry distinguished Geders because “the normal consultation between attorney and client 7
that occurs during an overnight recess would encompass matters that go beyond the content of the 8
defendant’s own testimony—matters that the defendant does have a constitutional right to discuss 9
with his lawyer, such as the availability of other witnesses, trial tactics, or even the possibility of 10
negotiating a plea bargain.” Id. Perry affirmed that it “is the defendant’s right to unrestricted access 11
to his lawyer for advice on a variety of trial-related matters that is controlling in the context of a long 12
recess.” Id. And this remains so, even though “such discussions will inevitably include some 13
consideration of the defendant’s ongoing testimony . . . .” Id. (emphasis added). 14
In this Circuit, we have emphasized that “the difference between Perry and Geders is not the 15
quantity of communication restrained but its constitutional quality.” United States v. Padilla, 203 16
F.3d 156, 160 (2d Cir. 2000); see also Serrano v. Fischer, 412 F.3d 292, 299-300 (2d Cir. 2005) 17
(distinguishing this Court’s focus on the “constitutional quality” of the communication from that of 18
other courts, which have held that the critical factor distinguishing Perry and Geders is the length 19
of time in which access to the defendant’s counsel is prevented). Thus, under our precedents, the 20
dispositive factor in Perry was the Perry Court’s assumption it was “appropriate to presume that 21
nothing but the testimony w[ould] be discussed,” 488 U.S at 284, and that therefore the ban on 22

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4 The types of restrictions that are justifiable will depend on the interests that the restrictions are aiming to
protect. For example, in Morgan we found that prohibiting defense counsel from informing the defendant
that a witness who alleged witness tampering was going to testify the next day, was a justified “carefully
tailored, limited restriction” on the defendant’s access to counsel. 204 F.3d at 367-68; see also Padilla, 203
F.3d at 160 (holding that there is no violation of the Sixth Amendment when the trial court ordered defense
counsel not to tell their clients about an investigation into allegations that the defendants had engaged in
witness tampering as this was a “reasonable restriction” to insure the integrity of the trial’s “truth-seeking
function”). In upholding these restrictions, we concluded that not only were the restrictions carefully tailored
to the problem at hand, but also that the evil they intended to prevent was “far more troubling than the
possibility of witness coaching involved in Geders and Perry, for intimidation of witnesses raises concerns
for both the well-being of the witness and her family and the integrity of the judicial process.” Morgan, 204
F.3d at 367 (emphasis added).
9
communication would not meaningfully interfere with constitutionally protected communication. 1
Given this assumption, the restriction was sufficiently limited to be constitutionally permissible.4
2
Morgan, 204 F.3d 360. 3
This understanding of Geders and Perry provides no “bright-line rule” for determining when, 4
and what kind of, restrictions on the communication between a defendant and his counsel are 5
permissible. Serrano, 412 F.3d at 300. Rather, as we have recently recognized, the cases mandate 6
“an intensely context-specific inquiry, the precise contours of which have yet to emerge.” Id. 7
In undertaking this inquiry in the case before us, we will review de novo Andrews’ claim that 8
his Sixth Amendment rights have been violated. Cf. United States v. Levy, 377 F.3d 259, 264 (2d 9
Cir. 2004). In addition, it is well settled that, in the Geders context, “a violation of a defendant’s 10
Sixth Amendment right to counsel . . . constitutes a structural defect which defies harmless error 11
analysis and requires automatic reversal.” Jones v. Vacco, 126 F.3d 408, 416 (2d Cir. 1997); see 12
also Perry, 488 U.S. at 280 (citing Strickland, 466 U.S. at 692); cf. United States v. Yakobowicz, 427 13
F.3d 144, 153-54 (2d Cir. 2005) (distinguishing structural errors which “affect[] the framework 14
within which the trial proceed[s]” and fundamentally undermine its fairness or validity, and therefore 15

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10
require automatic reversal, from trial errors, which are subject to harmless error review and “are 1
discrete events that occur during the presentation of the case and may be quantitatively assessed in 2
the context of the other evidence presented in order to determine whether its admission was harmless 3
beyond a reasonable doubt” (internal quotation marks and alterations omitted)). 4
B. 5
We first consider the constitutionality of the overnight restriction on communication. The 6
Government argues that there are three factors in this case that each independently preclude a finding 7
of a Sixth Amendment violation: (1) the order prevented communication only about the defendant’s 8
testimony; (2) the ban lasted just three hours; and (3) any error was “cured” because the district court 9
gave the defendant as much time as needed to consult with his attorney the next morning. We 10
decline to adopt any such per se rules. 11
The issue of whether there can be a Sixth Amendment violation when the only attorney-client 12
communication prohibited was communication about the defendant’s testimony is one of first 13
impression for our Circuit. Some state courts have held that such a ban does not implicate the Sixth 14
Amendment because a defendant has no constitutional right to discuss ongoing testimony with his 15
counsel. See, e.g., State v. Conway, 842 N.E.2d 996, 1021 (Ohio 2006); Webb v. State, 663 A.2d 16
452, 459 (Del. 1995). But all of the federal circuit courts that have considered the issue have 17
concluded that under Perry and Geders a district court may not order a defendant to refrain from 18
discussing his ongoing testimony with counsel during an overnight recess, even if all other 19
communication is allowed. See United States v. Sandoval-Mendoza, 472 F.3d 645, 651 (9th Cir. 20
2006); United States v. Santos, 201 F.3d 953, 965 (7th Cir. 2000); United States v. Cobb, 905 F.2d 21
784, 792 (4th Cir. 1990); see also Mudd v. United States, 798 F.2d 1509, 1510 (D.C. Cir. 1986) 22

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11
(reaching the same holding under Geders, prior to Perry); United States v. Romano, 736 F.2d 1432, 1
1439 (11th Cir. 1984), vacated in part on rehearing on other grounds by 755 F.2d 1401 (11th Cir. 2
1985) (finding, prior to Perry, a Sixth Amendment violation where the court ordered defendant not 3
to discuss his testimony with counsel during a recess that spanned five days). 4
The Government seeks to distinguish Santos and Cobbs on the grounds that they did not 5
focus on whether communication of a “constitutional quality” was precluded, as required under 6
Second Circuit precedent. (The Ninth Circuit opinion in Sandoval-Mendoza was issued after this 7
case was argued, so it is not addressed in the briefs.) This, however, misreads those decisions. 8
Neither Santos, Cobbs, nor Sandoval-Mendoza suggest that only the length of the restriction matters. 9
To the contrary each concluded that an order banning the defendant from discussing his testimony 10
with counsel during an overnight recess is unconstitutional because it has the effect of prohibiting 11
a wide range of discussions that under Geders are constitutionally protected. 12
It is true that a defendant has no constitutional right to discuss his ongoing testimony with 13
his attorney. Perry, 488 U.S at 284. But that does not end the inquiry. For as Perry recognizes, the 14
defendant does have a constitutionally protected right to discuss a “variety of trial-related matters” 15
during a substantial recess that “will inevitably include some consideration of the defendant’s 16
ongoing testimony.” Id. (emphasis added). 17
Accordingly, as Judge Posner concluded in Santos, “Perry makes clear . . . that while the 18
judge may instruct the lawyer not to coach his client, he may not forbid all ‘consideration of the 19
defendant’s ongoing testimony’ during a substantial recess, since that would as a practical matter 20
preclude the assistance of counsel across a range of legitimate legal and tactical questions, such as 21
warning the defendant not to mention excluded evidence.” 201 F.3d at 965 (internal citation 22

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12
omitted). The Fourth Circuit had no difficulty reaching the same result, explaining that it “would 1
defy reason” not to conclude that “[t]o remove from [the defendant] the ability to discuss with his 2
attorney any aspect of his ongoing testimony [would] effectively eviscerate[] his ability to discuss 3
and plan trial strategy.” Cobb, 905 F.2d at 792. Cobb emphasized that any competent counsel 4
would need to “take into consideration the testimony of his client in deciding how to try the rest of 5
the case.” Id.; see also Sandoval-Mendoza, 472 F.3d at 651 (“[I]t is hard to see how a defendant’s 6
lawyer could ask him for the name of a witness who could corroborate his testimony or advise him 7
to change his plea after disastrous testimony, subjects Perry expressly says a defendant has a right 8
to discuss with his lawyer during an overnight recess, without discussing the testimony itself.”). 9
We find the reasoning of the Fourth, Seventh, and Ninth Circuits persuasive. We agree that, 10
as Perry suggests, a defendant’s constitutional right to consult with his attorney on a variety of trial- 11
related issues during a long break, such as an overnight recess, is inextricably intertwined with the 12
ability to discuss his ongoing testimony. Thus, a ban on discussing testimony during a substantial 13
recess does materially impede communication of a “constitutional quality.” Accordingly, such a 14
restriction generally will not be sufficiently “carefully tailored” to be constitutionally permissible 15
under Geders and Perry. See Morgan, 204 F.3d 360. And as Geders mandates, when there is a 16
conflict between “the defendant’s right to consult with his attorney during a long overnight recess 17
in the trial, and the prosecutor's desire to cross-examine the defendant without the intervention of 18
counsel . . . the conflict must, under the Sixth Amendment, be resolved in favor of the right to the 19
assistance and guidance of counsel.” Geders, 425 U.S. at 91. We, therefore, join our sister circuits 20
and hold that a restriction on communication during a long recess can violate the Sixth Amendment 21
even if the restriction bars discussion only of the defendant’s testimony. 22

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13
The Government’s second argument—that, because the ban on communication was in place 1
for only three hours, between 5 pm and 8 pm, it did not matter—also fails. Circuit precedent 2
requires that we focus not on the length of time of the prohibition, but rather on the constitutional 3
quality of the communications affected. Padilla, 203 F.3d at 160. Accordingly, we read Perry to 4
permit the ban on communication there involved not simply because the break was only fifteen 5
minutes, but instead because, given the context—a very short mid-day recess in the middle of the 6
defendant’s cross-examination—“it [was] appropriate to presume that nothing but the testimony 7
w[ould] be discussed.” Perry, 488 U.S at 284. In contrast, it seems equally appropriate to presume 8
that the discussions between a client and defendant that are likely to occur in the three hours 9
immediately after the close of the day’s trial are precisely those, constitutionally-protected, 10
conversations that Geders states usually take place during overnight recesses. Indeed, in many 11
situations, most, if not all, of the “overnight recess” consultations between a defendant and his 12
counsel likely happen—and often reasonably can only happen—during the hours immediately 13
following the recess of the trial. Thus, the fact that the ban on discussing testimony was only in 14
place from 5 pm-8 pm does not make it per se constitutional. 15
Finally, the Government asks us to return to a question that we explicitly left open in Jones 16
v. Vacco, 126 F.3d 408, 417 (2d Cir. 1997)—whether a Geders violation can be “cured” by the fact 17
that after the ban was lifted the defendant and his attorney were given time before the trial resumed 18
in which to talk. In Vacco, finding that on the facts it was unclear whether the ban had in fact been 19
lifted, we concluded that we did not need to reach that question. Id. But we expressed a reluctance 20
to “rely on unforeseen circumstances to correct judicial error” and emphasized that “[o]ur 21
constitutional rights must be respected ab initio.” Id. Furthermore, we believe that restrictions on 22

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5 No explicit rationale for this ban before us was offered.
14
when a defendant can talk with his attorney may substantially interfere with his right to effective 1
assistance of counsel. These principles caution against a rule that would hold that an otherwise 2
unconstitutional ban on attorney-defendant communication would automatically be “cured” by 3
providing the defendant with time—even with substantial time—to consult with his attorney 4
immediately prior to resuming his testimony. And we decline to adopt such a rule today. 5
Nevertheless, the fact that the defendant was provided with as much time as necessary to 6
consult with his attorney on all subjects before testimony resumed is not irrelevant to our analysis. 7
Nor is the fact that the restriction was limited to discussing testimony and that it lasted only three 8
hours. Rather each of these factors is part of the totality of the circumstances that we must take into 9
account in determining whether Andrews’ Sixth Amendment rights were violated. And it is to this 10
totality-of-the-circumstances analysis that we now turn. 11
C. 12
There are two types of situations in which a court order restricting communication between 13
the defendant and his counsel will be found constitutional. First, a “carefully tailored, limited 14
restriction” on communication may be justified to protect an important countervailing interest. 15
Morgan, 204 F.3d at 367. The only plausible justification for the ban in the instant case was the 16
interest in preventing improper influence on testimony.5 But as we have seen, under Geders—and 17
Perry—this interest will not justify a substantial interference with constitutionally protected 18
communication. Geders, 425 U.S. at 91. And since banning discussion of testimony over an 19
overnight recess substantially, albeit indirectly, interferes with communication of constitutional 20
quality, an overnight ban on discussion of testimony falls squarely within the rule of Geders. Nor 21

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15
can the fact that the ban was later rescinded provide post-hoc justification for the initially unjustified 1
order. 2
But even a restriction on communication that lacks justification, like the one here, may be 3
sufficiently insignificant that it does not amount to a constitutional violation. In the related context 4
of the Sixth Amendment right to a public trial—another structural error for which harmless error 5
analysis does not apply—we have recognized that some unjustified court room closures may on their 6
facts be “so trivial” as not to violate the Constitutional guarantee. Peterson v. Williams, 85 F.3d 39, 7
40 (2d Cir. 1996). Thus, for example, in Peterson we found that, in the circumstances of the case, 8
an inadvertent, brief court closure, in which what went on in camera was later repeated in open 9
court, did not violate the Sixth Amendment’s facially categorical “right to a . . . public trial.” Id. 10
(quoting U.S. Const. amend. VI). 11
The triviality standard 12
does not dismiss a defendant’s claim on the grounds that the defendant was guilty 13
anyway or that he did not suffer “prejudice” or “specific injury.” It is, in other words, 14
very different from a harmless error inquiry. It looks, rather, to whether the actions 15
of the court and the effect that they had on the conduct of the trial deprived the 16
defendant—whether otherwise innocent or guilty—of the protections conferred by 17
the Sixth Amendment. 18
19
Peterson, 85 F.3d at 42. As we subsequently explained, the analysis turns on whether the conduct 20
at issue “subverts the values the drafters of the Sixth Amendment sought to protect.” Smith v. 21
Hollins, 448 F.3d 533, 540 (2d Cir. 2006). 22
The triviality standard is equally applicable to bans on attorney-defendant communication. 23
The Supreme Court has recognized that allowing open communication between an attorney and the 24
defendant implicates one of the core values of the Sixth Amendment—insuring that a defendant, who 25

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6 This constitutionally protected right to counsel and to guidance from an attorney, includes both the directly
practical—making tactical and strategic decision, obtaining information, informing the defendant of his
rights, etc.—and the less tangible, but equally important role of reassuring and helping the defendant
understand what is going on in the proceedings. See Geders, 425 U.S. at 88.
16
ordinarily is “ill-equipped to understand and deal with the trial process without a lawyer’s guidance,” 1
is able to receive the advice, counsel, and support of his attorney at every part of the trial, and other 2
critical stages of his defense. Geders, 425 U.S. at 88, 89. When, in the totality of the circumstances, 3
a court order banning communications during a trial recess—even if unjustified—is issued in good 4
faith and does not actually prevent the defendant from communicating, unfettered, with his attorney 5
about the full panoply of trial related issues prior to the trial resuming, nor meaningfully interferes 6
with the quality of advice and counsel the attorney is able to provide during that recess6—the 7
fundamental values of the Sixth Amendment that Geders protects have not been subverted. In such 8
limited circumstances a restriction may be deemed trivial and judged not to amount to a Sixth 9
Amendment violation. 10
While, in the ordinary course, a three-hour evening ban on discussion of testimony could be 11
far from slight, in the unusual circumstances presented by the instant case, we believe that the court’s 12
restriction was trivial and did not meaningfully interfere with the defendant’s Sixth Amendment 13
rights to effective assistance of counsel. 14
First, defense counsel was on notice, at around 5:30 pm, within twenty minutes after the 15
district court ordered him not to discuss the defendant’s testimony with the defendant—and before 16
counsel left the courthouse—that the Government might ask the court to rescind the ban on 17
discussion of testimony and would schedule a conference call later in that evening if necessary. 18
Even assuming that the defendant was not still in the court room—which is in dispute—defense 19

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7 In this respect the case would be very different had the defense counsel found out for the first time at 8 pm
that the ban might be lifted.
17
counsel admitted that he could have immediately called Andrews on his cell phone to alert him and 1
arrange to talk later in the evening. Similarly, defense counsel could reasonably have taken a number 2
of other steps to insure that if the ban was temporary the effects on his client would be minimized. 3
He could, for instance, have made notes so that the defendant’s testimony would remain fresh in his 4
mind, have brought the files he needed with him, and taken steps to remain fully alert if the ban were 5
shortly lifted. 6
By 7 pm, defense counsel had been contacted by the Government and knew that that the ban 7
would likely be removed. Again, defense counsel could have—but did not— immediately attempt 8
to contact the defendant to notify him. (The defendant had not yet begun his prayer meeting with 9
his cell phone turned off.) 10
Given what transpired after the court issued the order, we are not persuaded that it was the 11
restrictions placed on the communication by the court, rather than the decisions made by defense 12
counsel, that precluded Andrews from being able to consult freely with his counsel that evening.7
13
And, of course, in analyzing whether there has been a structural constitutional violation under 14
Geders, our focus is on the interferences with communication that were the result of a district court 15
order or other government action. Disruptions in communication attributable to actions taken—or 16
not taken—by the defense counsel, instead go to the question of whether there was ineffective 17
assistance of counsel under Strickland. And the latter requires a consideration not only of whether 18
there has been a constitutional violation but also of whether there was prejudice—an issue not raised 19
by the defendant here. See Strickland, 466 U.S. at 686. 20

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8 Moreover, the fact that the ban was not absolute enabled defense counsel to keep the defendant apprised
of the situation and of the possible rescission of the order.
18
Second, while a ban on discussion of testimony in the context of a long recess substantially 1
interferes with constitutionally protected attorney-client communications, it is clearly not as severe 2
an interference as an absolute ban on communication. Since the restriction was only on discussion 3
of testimony, had the defendant and his counsel in fact desired to discuss issues that went beyond 4
rehashing the defendant’s cross-examination performance from the first day and planning his 5
testimony for the next day, they could have at least begun that broader conversation immediately on 6
hearing that the ban might be soon rescinded, or, indeed, even before there was any suggestion that 7
the ban might be lifted.8
8
Third, prior to taking the stand the next day, Andrews was given as much time as he needed 9
to confer with his counsel about anything, including his testimony. And after taking forty-five 10
minutes to consult, defense counsel informed the district court that they had had “sufficient time.” 11
Thus, critically, at no point in the trial did the defendant have to proceed without having an 12
opportunity to receive the unrestrained advice and counsel of his attorney. Defense counsel argues 13
persuasively that no amount of time is an adequate substitute for talking with the defendant 14
immediately after his testimony. And in some circumstances such an argument might be compelling. 15
But here defendant and his attorney could have reasonably been expected to speak—at least by 16
telephone—the night before. Moreover, they did nothing to reduce whatever disabilities the 17
temporary ban might have placed on their subsequent discussions. They did not, for example, seek 18

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9 At oral argument, the parties acknowledged that daily transcripts had routinely been made available
throughout the trial.
10 Conversely, were the Government clearly acting in bad faith it would probably be hard to avoid
concluding that the underlying core purposes of the right to consult counsel were violated.
19
to rectify any lack of recollection or notes by requesting that daily transcripts from the proceeding 1
day be provided prior to resuming the trial.9
2
Finally, in the case before us it is clear that the Government acted in full good faith. It was 3
the defense—not the Government—which first raised the issue of whether the defendant could 4
discuss his testimony with counsel. Not surprisingly, the Government—in reacting—had not had 5
an opportunity to research whether any restrictions might be constitutional. And when the 6
Government, nearly immediately, realized that there might be serious problems with the ban, it 7
informed the defendant and the court forthwith, diligently researched the issue, and attempted to 8
have the ban lifted as quickly as possible. In discussing the Government’s good faith, we do not 9
mean to suggest approval of what occurred. The fact that the Government and court did not realize 10
that the restriction was unconstitutional cannot, of course, justify it. And it would have been far 11
better for the Government—and the court—to have considered the validity of the ban prior to its 12
being imposed, rather than after the fact. Nor do we suggest that government good faith, in itself, 13
can render potential violations trivial. But it can be a factor in examining the totality of the 14
circumstances.10
15
When all of the circumstances are taken into consideration, it is evident that Andrews’ 16
communication with his attorney was only trivially affected by the short-lived court-imposed 17
restriction on overnight communication. Accordingly, the order did not violate Andrews’ Sixth 18
Amendment rights. 19

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20
We emphasize, yet again, the narrowness of our holding. The imposition of the court order 1
on Andrews’ right to effective assistance of counsel was trivial because, inter alia, (1) the order 2
restricted only the discussion of testimony and did not cut off all communication; (2) defense 3
counsel, while still in the courthouse and less than thirty minutes after it was put in place, was 4
informed the ban might be lifted; (3) counsel admits that he could have contacted the defendant at 5
that time to make arrangements to speak later that evening, but made no attempt to do so; (4) the 6
defendant was still available by cell phone at the time defense counsel learned that restriction on 7
communication was going to be lifted; (5) the restriction on communications was lifted at 8 pm, 8
three hours after it was initiated; (6) the defendant was given as much time as necessary to consult 9
with his attorney prior to beginning testimony the next day and acknowledged that he had had 10
sufficient time; and (7) there was no bad faith on the part of the government or the court. We do not 11
hold that any one of these factors alone would have lead to the restriction being constitutional. 12
Indeed, had any of these factors not been present, our conclusion might well have been different. 13
D. 14
The defendant also argues that the restrictions the district court placed on the discussion of 15
testimony between defendant and his counsel during daytime recesses of the last two days of the 16
defendant’s cross-examination violated his right to effective assistance of counsel. Although the 17
district court did not renew the overnight ban, the district court did issue new orders during the 18
second and third day of Andrews cross-examination barring the defendant from discussing his 19
testimony with counsel during short morning and afternoon breaks and during the one-hour lunch 20
breaks. 21

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11 The Third Circuit recently reached a similar conclusion and also avoided ruling on the Perry/Geders issue
conclusively, in the context of a claim of ineffective assistance of appellate counsel, holding that appellate
counsel was not unreasonable in failing to argue to the state appellate court that an order banning the
defendant from speaking with anyone during a lunch break was unconstitutional. Albrecht v. Horn, 471 F.3d
435 (3d Cir. 2006). The court based its decision on its view that had the issue been raised it would not have
been clearly meritorious because “the two-hour prohibition over lunch time, which occurred in the middle
of cross-examination, likely is tolerable under Perry insofar as the sole topic of discussion would have been
the testimony itself. ” Id. at 467 (emphasis added). Recently, however, the panel in Albrecht granted
rehearing and vacated its decision in the case. Albrecht v. Horn, No. 04-9005, 2007 U.S. App. LEXIS 8224
(3d Cir. April 10, 2007). The case raises a number of unrelated issues, and it is not clear which of these
issues the court plans on reconsidering.
21
Perry is dispositive as to the orders limiting communication during the brief morning and 1
afternoon recesses. Under Perry, a court is entitled to prohibit all communication during such 2
recesses. If follows that a narrower ban, limited just to discussion of testimony, must also be 3
constitutionally permitted. See Perry, 488 U.S. at 285 n.8 (suggesting that instead of preventing all 4
consultation during a short break, “the judge may permit consultation between counsel and defendant 5
during such a recess, but forbid discussion of ongoing testimony” (internal citation omitted). 6
The issue of whether the restriction on communication during an hour-long lunch break falls 7
on the Perry or Geders side of the line is, however, more difficult. In Serrano, in the context of a 8
habeas petition, we considered the constitutionality of an absolute ban on attorney-defendant 9
communications during a ninety-minute lunch break. We concluded that such a ban was not 10
“contrary to, [n]or involved an unreasonable application of, clearly established Federal law, as 11
determined by the Supreme Court of the United States . . . .” Serrano, 412 F.3d at 296, 300-01. But 12
we held this given the defense counsel’s defiance of trial court rulings and his refusal to agree to a 13
more limited order—not to discuss the defendant’s testimony—during the break. Id. And in doing 14
so, we explicitly avoided ruling on whether such a ban would be held unconstitutional if presented 15
on direct appeal or whether, in other circumstances, such a ban would be unreasonable.11 Id. at 303 16

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22
(“We emphasize the narrowness of our holding. We do not hold that a ninety-minute bar on 1
attorney-client communications during a recess from a defendant’s testimony necessarily falls within 2
the rule announced in Perry. Nor do we hold that it would constitute a reasonable application of 3
Supreme Court precedent under § 2254(d)(1) to bar attorney-client communications during a lunch 4
recess in circumstances other than those present in this case. . . . We only hold that in light of defense 5
counsel’s defiant behavior at trial, the state court decisions rejecting petitioner’s deprivation-of- 6
counsel claim were not contrary to Supreme Court precedent and did not involve an unreasonable 7
application of that precedent within the meaning of 28 U.S.C. §2254(d)(1).”). 8
We have not had an opportunity since Serrano to revisit the issue. Thus, both the question 9
of whether an absolute ban on attorney-client communication during a one-hour lunch break, and 10
the question presented here—the constitutionality of a lunch time ban only on discussing the 11
defendant’s testimony, remain open in our circuit. 12
The presumption that nothing will be talked about except testimony during a lunch break may 13
well be more tenuous than Perry’s key presumption to the same effect with respect to a fifteen- 14
minute recess. We need not, however, reach the question of whether there is a sufficient difference 15
to preclude an absolute ban on attorney-client consultation during a lunch break. Rather, we 16
conclude that regardless of whether an absolute ban on communication would be permitted, a ban 17
only on attorney-client discussion of the defendant’s ongoing testimony during an hour lunch break 18
does not violate the Sixth Amendment. 19
Since a defendant has no constitutional right to discuss the contents of his testimony while 20
it is ongoing, a court has more leeway to issue an order barring discussion of testimony than an order 21
barring all communication. As we have emphasized earlier, this discretion is cabined because of the 22

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23
inevitable link between discussing testimony and the constitutionally protected right to talk with 1
counsel about the whole range of trial-related issues. As a result, during an overnight break, the right 2
to unfettered access controls, and any such a ban will not usually pass constitutional muster. Geders, 3
425 U.S. at 91; see also supra II.B-C. But, as long as a defendant is provided unfettered access to 4
his attorney during subsequent overnight breaks, a mid-day, one-hour ban on discussing ongoing 5
testimony is likely to interfere only in minimal ways on any constitutionally protected 6
communication. As a result, such a restriction will generally be sufficiently narrowly tailored to be 7
constitutionally justifiable. There may be situations in which a defendant could show that in the 8
specific circumstances discussion of her testimony during lunch was necessary for counsel to provide 9
effective assistance regarding decisions that had to be made that afternoon. And in such a situation, 10
counsel would be free to explain the circumstances to the district court, and the court would then 11
need to take into account these circumstances to make sure that no unconstitutional restrictions were 12
imposed. But there has been no such showing here. Accordingly, we conclude that the district 13
court’s lunch-time restrictions did not violate defendant Andrews’ Sixth Amendment rights. 14
*** 15
Having found that none of the restrictions on Andrews’ access to counsel amounted to a 16
constitutional violation, we AFFIRM the judgment of the district court. 17
18

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